Sun, 05 Oct 2025 07:04:52 -0700 Andy from private IP, post #15618647 /all Change my view: Taiwan should be a Special Administrative Region of China like Hong Kong I went to Hong Kong in 2015 for a business trip. I felt like I was in a Chinese version of the U.K., not China itself. I didn't see any PLA soldiers or CCP representatives, flags, or signage anywhere. It didn't feel oppressive in the least. Why not apply this same model to Taiwan? Nothing changes for Taiwan except they don't have to have a military anymore; nothing changes for the U.S. except we don't have to sell them equipment or support the defense of Taiwan, and there is no more of this wink-wink charade of the American Institute in Taiwan being the unofficial embassy. Taiwan being independent and declaring itself the proper government of China when they lost the civil war in 1949 is like if the U.S. civil war Confederate generals had fled to Hawaii, and Hawaii declared itself the rightful government of the United States. It's an on-point analogy, though not identical because Hawaii was not part of the United States at that time. It's ridiculous either way. There are strong reasons to make Taiwan part of China in the same way Hong Kong is part of China. In a Special Administrative Region, people could be outside the Great Firewall and nothing would change for international business. There would be massive profits for everyone from eliminating the wasteful spending on Taiwanese defense while refocusing on chips. At the same time, the U.S. needs to bring chip manufacturing home anyway, so why not start now with a soft landing instead of Taiwan being abruptly cut off in an invasion, paralyzing the world's chip supplies. The future of Taiwan is that it peacefully becomes part of China as a Special Administrative Region, or China takes it by force and captures essentially the entire chip-making capacity of the world. Either way, it's better for everyone (including the Taiwanese) if Taiwan becomes a SAR through a treaty and diplomacy, instead of war. Most of the world doesn't even recognize Taiwan, including the U.N. and the U.S. (at least officially). Change my view. #News #Politics #Technology Sun, 05 Oct 2025 08:34:34 -0700 marlon from private IP Reply #19650334 Hong Kong sucks now, so i've heard Sun, 05 Oct 2025 08:38:56 -0700 shithead from private IP Reply #13963875 China destroyed what made Hong Kong special. Taiwanese overwhelmingly oppose becoming a satrapy of Beijing. The only people that shit blood from their nostrils because of the status quo are the Beijing nomenklatura and its running dogs. /thread Sun, 05 Oct 2025 11:34:52 -0700 2tierreality from private IP Reply #10969907 👍 My only quibble with your analogy is that R.O.C. were the good guys, and "Red China" were the bad guys. Thought exercise: what if the Union lost to the Confederacy, and the the Union fled to Hawaii? Meanwhile the Confederacy took over the continental United States and ruled it going forward, continuing to promote slavery and the suppression of Black people. Then in the 70's, Canada, U.K., Russia, and European nations decided that there was money to be made by opening up trade and relations with the Confederate U.S.. Yes, China moved on from communism, toward a sort of hegemonic capitalism, but from the U.S. perspective Taiwan's political and economic system is more like a peer in that corner of the world, IMO. I say leave Taiwan alone, they aren't really hurting anyone. I believe in autonomy, and if the people of Taiwan want this, then it's fine. But I dint think China or the U.N. should bring political pressure for this move. My wife's family is all from Taiwan, so I freely admit that I have some bias here. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think they are really larping as the true mainland Chinese ruling authority like they used to. Arguably, China benefits by isolating it's independent-minded people in one place apart from the mainland, sort of like a hippie colony. Sun, 05 Oct 2025 15:41:06 -0700 TribalBarConnection from private IP Reply #13747598 The Republic of China is real China and the Communist rebels must be dealt with. Sun, 05 Oct 2025 16:54:06 -0700 zerosugar from private IP Reply #18061005 👍 👍 Andy, I respectfully believe your analogy oversimplifies the issue and overlooks the will of the Taiwanese people, who’ve consistently rejected Beijing’s model after watching what happened in Hong Kong. “One country, two systems” collapsed the moment it was tested. Taiwan has built its own democratic identity, and that autonomy isn’t a quirk of history. It’s overall a deliberate choice by its citizens. Framing annexation as an administrative or economic efficiency might sound pragmatic, but it erases real human agency. Whether Taiwan’s independence is recognized internationally or not, its people have already clearly chosen their future for the most part. I also do not know much about ethnic and cultural identity in Taiwan to comment, but aren’t there different ethnic groups there? The main population are Han and this argument would make me lean towards supporting your position, but there are other minority groups and as previously stated, it overall seems like the Taiwanese people themselves have already decided. Maybe in the future there can be a monitored election to confirm the will of the people. Sun, 05 Oct 2025 16:59:52 -0700 zerosugar from private IP Reply #17818916 I also could be wrong about the majority’s views, but from what I have seen in news segments and articles, it seems a good portion of the population do not want to follow Beijing’s will. tl; dr From an ethnic perspective though, they are mostly the same people. Clearly, they are still divided politically though and seems to me most Taiwanese want it to stay that way. Sun, 05 Oct 2025 23:40:15 -0700 whiteguyinchina from private IP Reply #17465357 Oh Andy you are a gem. This site is bumping up my social credit. I think the only minority groups in Taiwan are whiteguysinchina and perhaps some Filipino maids. Mon, 06 Oct 2025 01:06:00 -0700 Andy from private IP Reply #15037727 Thanks, all-- much appreciated. @zerosugarTest By your logic, California or Illinois could exit the United States simply because most people there (allegedly) disagree with the Federal government. But this raises an important point: the original thirteen colonies voted to adopt the Constitution, and the Constitution (once adopted) prohibits anyone from leaving without the consent of 3/4 of the states. Hence the Civil War over secession from the Union. It does not matter how people viewed the policies of the Confederacy; just because slavery is wrong doesn't mean that the South should have had self-determination without the consent of 3/4 of the other states. In other words, it doesn't matter what people think of Communism; the Communists won their civil war. It's no different from people disagreeing with monarchy as a system of government; unless you win by force, you don't have the right to secede from your country. This would be like Scotland seceding from the U.K. by renouncing its king and then failing to win the resulting civil war, but steadfastly maintaining they are a separate independent country recognized by no one. I don't mean to surprise everyone by supporting the PRC; trust me, I'm not a fan of Communism. This isn't about the PRC, it's about a simple interpretation of the fact that Taiwan was part of China and the ruling government there lost the Chinese civil war. They should negotiate before something bad happens, which would inevitably disrupt the world. Mon, 06 Oct 2025 09:54:48 -0700 zerosugar from private IP Reply #19136310 The group I was thinking of that I once read about are the Austronesians who are often referred to as indigenous Taiwanese, but apparently they even share heritage with the Han via South China so the differences are more minuscule than I previously thought. Although minority rights may be a weak argument anyway considering mainland China have their own minorities, but I just thought to raise it. Perhaps Taiwan being a pretty large self-sustaining island could be another argument in their favor for sovereignty, but either way, it's a complex issue. Illinois and California are not islands. The island of Puerto Rico on the other hand is not a state, but a commonwealth. There have been some independence movements in Puerto Rico, but clearly it seems the majority there support staying with the USA and some even want statehood. I also realize being an island is not enough to lay a claim to independence, but again, Taiwan is pretty large and self sustaining. Mon, 06 Oct 2025 10:02:20 -0700 zerosugar from private IP Reply #15264350 It is overall a complex issue and surely there are arguments for and against Taiwan staying with Beijing. The biggest argument that can be made for an independent Taiwan is the will of the Taiwanese, but yes that can also be dismissed when you consider analogies such as secessionist movements in the USA including the confederates themselves during the Civil War and Reconstruction era. Here is an interesting study from Pew on identity in Taiwan. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/01/16/most-people-in-taiwan-see-themselves-as-primarily-taiwanese-few-say-theyre-primarily-chinese/ Mon, 06 Oct 2025 10:06:32 -0700 zerosugar from private IP Reply #12209254 Back to Pew, I do believe from an ethnic perspective, they are Chinese regardless of what they consider themselves. However, I acknowledge that politics and even island status play a role. Perhaps the best analogy is South and North Korea though. They are definitely the same people who share a heritage and history, but severely divided politically. Lebanese and Syrians also share a similar heritage, but political division over the years. Mon, 06 Oct 2025 11:39:26 -0700 Andy from private IP Reply #15250060 There should be a grand bargain, in which North and South Korea reunify peacefully, and Taiwan and China reunify peacefully. Otherwise, everyone is courting disaster. Mon, 06 Oct 2025 12:47:10 -0700 shithead from private IP Reply #14682824 "I think the only minority groups in Taiwan are whiteguysinchina and perhaps some Filipino maids." Indigenous Taiwanese people are Austronesian. There are 19 or 20 subfamilies of Austronesian languages. Only one of those subfamilies has a distribution outside of Taiwan, and that subfamily includes languages as widely dispersed as Malagasy (Madagascar), Bahasa Indonesia, Tagolog (Philippines), Hawaiian, Maori, and Cham. Mandarin is Sino-Tibetan, not Austronesian. Mon, 06 Oct 2025 16:56:20 -0700 whiteguyinchina from private IP Reply #11430624 Interesting shithead. I did not know that. Thanks Tue, 07 Oct 2025 08:36:01 -0700 shithead from private IP Reply #12402407 Aye capitan. Austronesian is fascinating for me, as a language geek and someone who has studied Bahasa Indonesia pretty extensively. First, for a single island's linguistic diversity, Taiwan is really only rivaled by New Guinea. Second, it's crazy that one single subfamily from that island wound up dispersed halfway around the world, from Madagascar to Easter Island. Those people got around. Tue, 07 Oct 2025 08:36:17 -0700 shithead from private IP Reply #19308753 Think Polynesians, rather than Chinese. Tue, 07 Oct 2025 08:37:55 -0700 shithead from private IP Reply #19098583 No doubt that the KMT treated them like shit after taking over the island (it had been Japanese for some time), but that isn't an argument in favor of forcing suzerainty to Beijing on them.Replies require login.
@18061005 2604:2d80:ea8e:4700:e488:30f1:4143:393e đź‘Ť @10969907 Andy đź‘Ť @18061005 Andy đź‘Ť
JDUnderground
117 users registered
Sign in | Register | Post width: chars
117 users registered
Sign in | Register | Post width: chars
Preview on Preview off |
Recently active users: Macbeowulf marlon phosita TribalBarConnection whiteguyinchina zerosugar +81 guests
Recently active users: Macbeowulf marlon phosita TribalBarConnection whiteguyinchina zerosugar +81 guests